on eBAY: Willie Rowsome Bb Set for Sale - ca. 1905

Jim McGuire · Post by **Jim McGuire** » Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:33 pm

Mick's main set has been the Willie Rowsome for ongoing projects and still is. The new CD is in B and recent gigs have gone in that direction for a nice change of pace.

Steampacket · Post by **Steampacket** » Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:40 am

Mick O'Brian's "May morning dew" came out seven years ago in 1997. I believe Mick has been mostly using his Froment concert & flat sets these past few years. Johannes Schiefner has a W. Rowsome D set with a A. Rogge chanter and one of Gay's sons used to play a W Rowsome set at one time. Can't remember if the chanter was a W. Rowsome though, anybody know?, Peter?

tompipes · Post by **tompipes** » Mon Aug 02, 2004 6:26 am

Mick uses the Froment flat set now and again . Especialy when he's playing with Kevin O Reilly.
But Mick plays a couple of nights a week in Dublin as well as trips away fairly often. So for the amount that he does play its usualy the Willie Rowsome set that he uses. He doesn't have a Froment concert set, His brother John does though. Sean McKeon doesn't have a Willie Rowsome chanter with that set either.
Willie died in his early 50's and didn't get a chance to pass all his pipe-making skills on to Leo so it wouldn't generaly thought that Leo's stuff was better at all.
Quite the opposite.
Tommy

Jim McGuire · Post by **Jim McGuire** » Mon Aug 02, 2004 6:55 am

Willie and Leo definitely crossed over in time, so Willie had a sizable impact on Leo. Leo was born in 1903; Willie died in the mid 1920s.

Mick O'Brien's Willie Rowsome set is complete - the chanter requires him to cross C nat differently than most chanters.

Did you know that there are half a dozen Willie Rowsome sets in the US?

tommykleen · Post by **tommykleen** » Mon Aug 02, 2004 7:14 am

I read (in this forum) recently that Froment made a copy of Mick's D Willie set and that Mick plays that set mostly now (for concert pitch stuff that is) 'cos it's easier to play. True? Do you think he'd give me the Willie set, since he's not using it ?:)

Just a serving suggestion...
t

Steampacket · Post by **Steampacket** » Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:04 am

I get the impression that Mick O'Brian uses his Froment sets quite a lot. Every time I've seen Mick play in Ireland he's used a Froment set. At Willie Week I've only seen the flat set at the solo recitals these last few years, and the concert Froment set with the A drone for the newly composed commisioned semi classical piece. Prehaps Mick uses or used the Froment D chanter with the W. Rowsome body. I'd imagine that W. Rowsome's D sets were tuned at the old standard of A=455 or whatever it was then, and prehaps are not to happy about being played at todays pitch. I'd personally prefer a Leo Rowsome full set in D than a W. Rowsome if I was forced to make a choice

, even though it seems some of Leo's chanter's can be stroppy at times. Well in fact, when all said and done, at the end of the day, I'd go for the best ever in concert pitch and snag a Dave Williams

tompipes · Post by **tompipes** » Mon Aug 02, 2004 11:30 am

That set concert that Mick plays was made by Willie Rowsome in 1921.
The set the chanter top with stop key was made by Froment as a gift to Mick.
Its a close copy of the original top but with a stop key. A year or so ago, Alain put that A drone on the stock at Mick's request, so apart from that extra drone and the top of the chanter,
the set in completely Willie Rowsome.
But, yes, most Willie and early Leo Rowsome stuff were tuned to A=453 and as a result are tricky to get back down to A=440.
I believe that Micks chanter was based on a Taylor which explains the unusual C natural shape. With a lot of Taylor chanters, C natural can only be achieved by usin g the C natural key.
Cross fingering works only if you partialy close the top C hole. This will flatten the note enough to get it closer to C nat.
Willie Rowsome's work was a bit more stylish than Leo's.
His turning was a bit more polished and his mounts and ferrules werea bit fancier in general. I saw a C# set in rosewood and nickel silver that belonged to a lady from Longford, the initials W R were inlaid in beautiful ivory and ebony german gothic lettering. Fancy indeed.
It was only in the 1940's that Leo Rowsome started using the A=440 tuning system. But by then, the war was on and exotic woods and metals were not available.
The instruments sounded great but they didn't look as fancy as earlier work.
Pipemaker, Kevin Thompson (who also has a Willie Rowsome C# set) theorises that as Leo got older his workmanship did not suffer but that he neglected to maintain tools. Reamers were not just as sharp so instruments weren't perfect as a result.
But still great!

Tommy.

Steampacket · Post by **Steampacket** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 2:31 am

Thanks Tommy for the info on Mick O'Brian's W. Rowsome concert set. I didn't know that, thought Mick was playing a new D Froment set.

"With a lot of Taylor chanters, C natural can only be achieved by usin g the C natural key." Tompipes.

Yes, I've heard about that and I remember the Taylor chanter that turned up at the piping workshop in WW in 98 (there's a pic on my Taylor page) was like that. Alan B. managed to make a reed for it (Do you remember Alan?). It wasn't easy to reed it in today's tuning, as as you say like Willie's concert chanters this Taylor was probably an A=453. Contrary to a certain pipemaker's claim, this was indeed a bona fide Taylor chanter with beautifully precision made & finished, keywork & popping valve with the 5 rivets in the ivory end decoration, as on the Cork-Goodman set.

"as Leo got older his workmanship did not suffer but that he neglected to maintain tools. Reamers were not just as sharp so instruments weren't perfect as a result. But still great! " Tompipes.

Yes, I've heard this too, sounds logical. I heard that Leo used some of his father's reamers too and compensated by eye & hand. I wonder though, even if Willie's pipes were turned out fancier, if Leo had a better ear than Willie as regards tuning his instruments, or prehaps not? What do you think? Kevin are you also reading this?

Kevin L. Rietmann · Post by **Kevin L. Rietmann** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 5:45 am

Steampacket wrote: Kevin are you also reading this?

Duhh....huh!
I have a couple of tapes of Mick playing in New York City in the mid-late 90's, he mostly plays the Rowsome set. A bit later he digs out the Froment B. Seems he has no qualms about wipping out his Willie. I think O'Raghallaigh is firmly a flat pipes snob though, the marriage would probably be over if Mick tried to have a few tunes on the Irish foghorn.
Something that hasn't been made mention in this auction is that this Rowsome Bb is a true flat set - very quiet and sweet - not an Irish PA system like your Rowsome concert sets. Perhaps there's some confusion here regarding that. Dunno about Willie vs. Leo, their concert sets all sound pretty nasty to me. Not to mention the copies thereof. Don't forget the whole concert set dictum: meant to be heard on a stage.

Steampacket · Post by **Steampacket** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 6:23 am

"Steampacket wrote:
Kevin are you also reading this? " Kevin

Hello Kevin - cool to hear ya, but I meant the other Kevin as in Rowsome with a boxwood Willie

. Talking of Bb sticks how was Brad Angus' own Bb set - was it a nice one - hear it's heading this way?

Kevin L. Rietmann · Post by **Kevin L. Rietmann** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 7:09 am

I thought it was bound for Denmark, if that's what ya mean. It's pictured on Brad's website. This is the ebony/brass Bb, not the boxwood - Brad made that one for himself. I think that's the fourth set he's built as his own...
The Bb's a gem, I'm going over tommorow to play it a bit before it gets shipped off.

Steampacket · Post by **Steampacket** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 8:00 am

Yes, Denmark is right. We're only 40 minutes from Copenhagen by train so all being well I'll get to see and hear the set.

morten · Post by **morten** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 8:21 am

Kevin L. Rietmann wrote:I thought it was bound for Denmark, if that's what ya mean. It's pictured on Brad's website. This is the ebony/brass Bb, not the boxwood - Brad made that one for himself. I think that's the fourth set he's built as his own...
The Bb's a gem, I'm going over tommorow to play it a bit before it gets shipped off.

Yep thats right - It's heading my way to be precise

Brad made me an offer I couldn't refuse - hard thing was to talk my wife into it only a month after recieving my Williams stick

Its funny - three weeks ago I was prepared to wait years for a flat set, now I can hardly wait a week......

- And Kevin, please don't wear it out ehh?

Morten

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 8:45 am

Man... all this talk of flat sets is starting to make my fingers itch.

Lorenzo · Post by **Lorenzo** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 9:57 am

Yes, I agree. By this time next year I hope to be stabilized with a flat set. I'm getting to where I prefer the low flat buzz and pitch of B. And, getting to where the D sets sound strained, shrill, kinda like a baritone who wasn't meant to sing tenor.

Joseph, just record the tunes at a rapid pace and slow the recording back down to normal speed. It will put all your D pipes back down where they belong...somewhere between B and C!!

(a cheap fix in the meantime)