Brass or Nickel silver ferrules and fittings

[Kevin L. Rietmann]

Funny thing, John, I saw some pics of your pipes and it sure looked like tubing. Perhaps early efforts, or are you not big on tapering things heavily?
On NSP the pleasing-to-the-eye effect is even more dramatic.

[djm]

I had a half-set that had the ferrules epoxied in place. As the set aged the wood shrank. As the wood shrank the epoxy cracked and let go. It was a mess. I ended up using marine silicone to get the ferrules to stay in place. I cannot speak for Kirk Lynch sets, but epoxy was a bad experience for me.

As Liestman has pointed out, most of the better-known names in pipemaking today use tapered, hand-rolled ferrules (yes, Joe Kennedy uses them, too), as did the classical pipemakers of old. That doesn't mean that you will have the same problems that I have had if your set has epoxied tubing for ferrules, but you should be aware that it is not always the best solution.

djm

[liestman]

Kev, baby. True, I use tubing on everything I build, but I taper the tubing very very gently, at least on more recent work. I use thin walled tubing on all but the stock ferrules, where I use thicker walled tubing. The thin walls of most of my tubing require very gentle tapering that disappears from view really. The places I use thick walled tubing are short pieces, where the smear of the adhesive does not make much of a problem, but in those cases I use the method I learned from my friend Kirk, making a bump so that the ferrule is pressed in place in addition to being glued. I still do have ferrules come off over time and every piper should check ferrules periodically to see if they are loose and reglue them if they are. Most all the tubes on Northumbrian smallpipes are not there for structure, just for looks or for non-structural function (i.e. the ones on the standing drone pieces, the tuning beads, the one at the base of the chanter - just up from the end cap).

I was not trying to describe how I do it, merely describe why the old makers and many of todays use tapered ferrules. Ask any of my Northumbrian pals, I am not known for adhering to tradition (he says straping on his Irish style ebony bellows using the velcro closure on the armstrap before picking up the riveted bag that sends air through the plastic and brass drone reeds before firing up the chrome-plated chanter) but I do think it is vital to understand WHY some things are traditionally done.

[Jim McGuire]

Jim, if tradition is so important to these guys, why do pipemakers and
reedmakers and pipers use tubeing for there reeds, why dont they hand roll there staples the old way, the traditionalist tubeing for ferrules "O NO" can't have, that but then again its all right to use for reeds making, and yes I know there are still old time fantasizers out there with aids up there bores, and they love it , all most pipers want today is {1} a set that plays well in tune with its self,{2}well made, {3} and looks good without having to pay a fortune for , thats all pipers want, Seamus Ennis's set did'nt have lots of nickle or silver decor all over them. its the piper that plays the tune at the end of the day. all the best.

All true. Alain Froment uses brass tubing for making his reed staples. Many others do, too. Others roll their own - Brad Angus, Benedict Koehler, Geoff Wooff, for sure. If one can achieve their desired result from tubing, tubing is far more cost effective and less labor intensive.

People achieve 'tight fits' with tubing for ferrules. I was just pointing out what is lost in the process. People admire the old world techniques and the results. People made great sets in the past; people make great sets today.

[stew]

Thanks Jim, all I have been trying say is a ferrule made from quality brass tubing can very easily be manipulated into a tapered ferrule in a few minutes making it identical to a hand rolled one without having to solder it. but I will admit you are limited in lenght to about 30mm then it becomes little more difficult. there I said my bit. cheers all Stew.

[stew]

Jim, Don't mind me asking, Did I here you Were selling a Alain Froment set, is it still for sale or have you decided to keep it, I know someone that might be interested in it if you have? or is it a case of had. all the best Stew.

[Jim McGuire]

The set is no longer available.

[DMQuinn]

I spilled my guts on the topic of tapered ferrules a couple years back for the Seattle Pipers’ Review, and the articles have been hosted, with the editor’s permission, on the North Hero Pipers’ Gathering site. Seemingly endless babble about the why and the how, but you also have to dig through piles of blather on drone dimensions and whathaveyou. The three articles talk about the three different drones, and a technical aspect germane to each: fitting tapered ferrules, making tapered ferrules, and doing multiple parallel or splayed bores.

http://www.pipersgathering.org/Irish%20 ... 20Part%202

This whole great long string needs to be in the address box to get you there.

[djm]

Questions! Questions! Me! Pick me!

The article you point to says what you do, but not why. Why do you prefer to make hand-rolled ferrules instead of using tubing as discussed above?

Why would you use epoxy? Other sets I've seen just use a friction fit over a bit of thread winding. This makes the set easier to disassemble in future if required. What do you do to ensure the wood won't shrink and pull away in future?

Thx,

djm

[DMQuinn]

Questions! Questions! Me! Pick me!

The article you point to says what you do, but not why. Why do you prefer to make hand-rolled ferrules instead of using tubing as discussed above?

Quoting from the article:
"A cylindrical ferrule cannot be made to fit with the same degree of exactness, and because of its mechanical nature cannot provide as much support and protection as a conical ferrule."

I think Mr. Liestman's explanation is right on the money. I have also used conical ferrules spun from tubing, but I prefer to roll ferrules because I can choose the alloy and have more control over the thickness of the metal of the finished ferrule.

The only way to get as good a fit with a cylindrical ferrule as can be had with a conical one is to heat it up and allow it to shrink down in place. That is too risky, especially with a thin wall of ebony, which is notorious for being sensitive to heat.

The function of a ferrule over the drone slide wall is protective and decorative. Certainly, the thicker the wooden wall, the less protection is needed, but you might also expect to see relatively more motion of the wood through the year's moisture cycles. The tradition in dry pipes seems to be to keep the walls of the drone slide sockets quite thin, and that makes sense only if you have a very good fit between wood and metal. That simply is not mechanically possible with a cylindrical ferrule without heat shrinking, and here we are again at that same point in the circle.

Why would you use epoxy? Other sets I've seen just use a friction fit over a bit of thread winding. This makes the set easier to disassemble in future if required. What do you do to ensure the wood won't shrink and pull away in future?

If the fit is as good as I like it to be, there is almost no epoxy in the joint. Almost all of it gets squeezed out. Really, there’s just enough in there to hold the ferrule in place. If you use thread, there will be a certain amount of compressibility (which is what allows you to jam on and twist off the ferrule) and the wood is not going to be supported as well.

As to ensuring the wood won’t shrink and pull away in future, the answer to that is in the article as well. Time. Pipes need to be worked in stages over a long period of time. The wood will always move as it absorbs moisture from the air and gives it up, but the amount of motion relative to the section in question is really very small in a traditional UP drone slide. There are old drones that have survived the ages to prove that, the ones described in the articles being a case in point.

[djm]

Okay. Thanks for clarifying that.

djm

[Jim McGuire]

I understand that one ferrule can be 'tricked' into behaving like a tapered ferrule.

On a Taylor top, two ferrules are involved. One at the very top with the chanter nozzle that connects to the bag; one at the bottom where the chanter top connects to the chanter itself. The whole 'chanter top' effectively tapers down from the very top ferrule down through the bottom ferrule - two bits of tubing could not do this. It is just an example of a lovely esthetic and design from the 19th century.

[reedman]

Ferrule's are not made to fit the wood,the wood is turned to fit the ferrule
tapered or straight, I have never yet seen a set which has not shrunk a little from new were the ferrules have'nt come lose a little over time, I can understand rolling your own ferrule's in the old days, but in todays times no, I think its just an excuse to bump up the prices, like fully keyed chanters you only really ever use one key, two at the very most, drilling more holes in the chanter wall effects the bore and tuning of the chanter. Bye for now.

[Joseph E. Smith]

[djm]

Hairy eyeball, indeed.

djm