why are cuts played like that?

[Jeff Guevin]

As some of you may know, I'm pretty new to ITM and whistle. I've been working on my cuts, and I haven't figured out why they're played the way they are. Ganked from Brother Steve:

* Use the G finger (3rd finger of your top, normally left, hand) to cut the notes D, E, F# and G.
* Use the B finger (1st finger of your top, normally left, hand) to cut the notes A and B.

What I wonder is, why don't we just cut using the next higher note? (E.g., cut a D with an E, an E with an F#, and so on.) I can see that one argument could be

You're not really playing a note, so the pitch doesn't matter. We cut using the traditional convention because it's easiest.

But personally, I find using the next-higher-note method feels more natural under my fingers, and maybe sounds a bit better, too.

And if we decide that cuts can be played that way, what about rolls, which I've seen described as "a cut and a tap"? I know that basically means we'd be making rolls more like turns, but with their quick execution, i'm not sure you could even hear the difference.

All right, tear me a new one! (Or refer me to twelve threads that have discussed this--I found that searching on "cut" turned up a few too many threads to read.)

[glauber]

What I wonder is, why don't we just cut using the next higher note?

You may, if you want. It's a question of personal style and "what works" on a given whistle. The players who prefer to use more distant fingers may do so because they're looking for a more dramatic effect or, maybe, it's just easier, fewer muscles to train...

g

[Darwin]

What I wonder is, why don't we just cut using the next higher note?]

Actually, that's what Grey Larsen recommends. After spending my first several months doing it the other way, I went to using the next higher finger for most cuts. Although it took a week or so to get it down, it's quite natural now. It seems to me that it produces a better sound (or lack of sound) on second-octave notes--especially vented high D.

[colomon]

The right answer is, we don't cut like that. At least, I sure don't. I use 1st finger top hand for A and B, 2nd top for G, 3rd top for F# and E, and 2nd bottom for D.

Because the pitch isn't important, there is no standard way of fingering cuts.

[TonyHiggins]

It's true that it doesn't make much difference if you're playing fast- you won't hear the tone, just the rhythmic blip. On a slow air, you can hear a difference and it's worth experimenting with the effect. Like Darwin said, Grey Larsen's huge new book suggests using the finger above the note in question. I learned from an old tutorial put out by Ceoltas naEirreann (or however you spell it) and that book taught the upper index and ring finger method. That's mostly what I use. Get used to something and do it right, that's the main thing. Timing/speed is more the issue.
Tony
(If you can figure out when and when not to play them, you'll be way ahead of the pack. That's an ongoing process.)

[Wombat]

Well, different people use different methods and different texts recommend different methods. Some suggest cutting with the second finger of the left hand wherever possible. I go through periods when I do it one way, then I change. I might play cuts two or three different ways in the same tune. It's probably best to stick to one method, at least to start with.

The main thing is to get the right percussive effect which means finding a method that gives you a very fast response; a bit like a flam in drumming with the end of the cut right on the beat.

One reason why people might recommend always cutting with the left hand is that it maximises the rolls you can do cutting with the left and tapping with the right which is much easier than cutting and tapping with the same hand.

[vomitbunny]

I never cut that way. When I cut, I quickly flip the whistle around and blow the note back in the way it came out, so it sounds backwards. Gives it more of a dramatic effect.

[Jeff Guevin]

I never cut that way. When I cut, I quickly flip the whistle around and blow the note back in the way it came out, so it sounds backwards. Gives it more of a dramatic effect.

You are one funny $&#*!er. I'll bet your grade-school teachers feared you.

Everyone else--hooray! I can play them the way I like, at least until I post a sound clip and Peter hears it.

Thanks to all.

[DCrom]

A comment - I mostly cut using my left hand, but on a lot of high whistles (most of the cheapies I've tried, some of the rest) cutting a 2nd octave D or E with the left hand produces a very noticable/obtrusive shriek - working on speed reduces the duration, but doesn't eliminate it. Not every whistle does this (my Serpent Pollys and Dixons seem immune), and it seems to affect higher whistles more than lower ones.

I have been told that if I cut with LH3 fast enough, the cut will be just a blip, but seem to be too slow. Though I sometimes just cut with the next finger up, my general solution is to use RH1 for cuts on these notes (and substitute a cran for rolls here). I keep hoping that more practice will give me more options. It seems like the more I play (and listen) the more I find I don't know.

[StevieJ]

Jeff,

That was a partial quote from Bro. Steve. Underneath the bit you cited it says:

"You can use other fingers to cut various notes, but these two will work in pretty much every situation and on every whistle."

For example I myself use the index to cut almost everything all the time - I like the extra crispness - but for the sake of simplicity I don't recommend it to students because

a) it won't work on upper octave E and
b) it won't work as advertised on some whistles, esp. those of the non-cheap variety. I recently tried a maker's whistle that, unusually for me, I found great in almost every respect. But if I tried to cut a high g with the index finger it squealed on me.

Different teachers recommend different methods. Kathleen Coneely (wonderful player) would agree with Grey Larsen. Mary Bergin would agree with me (or should that be the other way around). Others would agree with something else. 'Sno big deal. This isn't highland piping. Try them all, go with what you like.

Steve

[Jeff Guevin]

Jeff,

That was a partial quote from Bro. Steve. Underneath the bit you cited it says:

"You can use other fingers to cut various notes, but these two will work in pretty much every situation and on every whistle."

Crap, I'm busted. I'm sure I read the whole page, and just re-skimmed it, and somehow missed it.

Well, it was good to get feedback from others, anyway.

[moxy]

All this talk about left-handed cuts is quite interesting. Did I not notice Mary Bergin (or maybe it was someone else... I was in a different state of mind at the time) using her left hand on the bottom and her right hand on the top?

Would this not make a difference to which hand she was using for cuts?

Just being my cheeky self

Nice to see you, StevieJ

[John S]

This idea has occurred to me as well, and it would avoid second octave problems.
On the GHB which finger to use as a cut (they all work on every note) is chosen to facilitate easy fast playing.
For instance in Jigs you often get three 1/8 note low A's in succession, now you could use three g (the usual first choice) cuts but in a fast tune this means that the high g finger has to move repetitively at speed, instead you use three different fingers (g, D, E) in succession so that each finger only has to move once.
x oxxxxxo
x xxxxxxo Low A
x xxxoxxo
x xxxxxxo
x xxoxxxo
x xxxxxxo
It took me a while to realise that GHB gracing patterns are designed to get the maximum number of notes for the minimum number of finger movements.
In a movement called a grip also playable on low A illustrates the point, you go down to low G cut with a D and go back to A.
x xxxxxxo
x xxxxxxx Low G
x xxxoxxx
x xxxxxxx
x xxxxxxo
Here the grace notes are played very quickly, and the effect is used very much as a role would be used.
I use some GHB type patterns on the Whistle and they work well adding variety and development.

TTFN
John S

[TonyHiggins]

I use some GHB type patterns on the Whistle and they work well adding variety and development.

John, I'd be very interested in hearing these pipe ornaments played on a whistle. Would you be able to record something and post it or send it to Clips for posting?
Tony

[John S]

Hi Tony, I'll try and get something sorted, what is the best format to use wav, mp3, or ra?

John S